blah-de-blah

[lierdumoa]

I'm not vidding right now. Thanks to a dismally short attention span I don't think I can even read fic right now. Two TF&TF fic have crossed my flist that are just waiting to be read but, like, brain? Somewhere far away and laughing at me while I flail around with an empty head.

Anyway, in case anyone's curious, here's how I hear music, and how that translates into my vidding style:

Essentially I hear music like this -- first I notice beat, then I notice melody/harmony, then I notice lyrics.

Now when I say beat, I do not mean I hear the backbeat. I mean I hear the entire song in terms of beat. There are two general types of beat -- stress and pitch, either denoting a change in volume or by moving to a different note on the scale. A drum beat is a stress beat. Instruments like pianos provide beats that are both stress and pitch, as do voices. String instruments generally denote beat via pitch more than stress. This means that if I hear words, the first thing I notice is accented and unaccented syllables. I'll actually memorize the intonation of a word in a song before I memorize the word itself.

Overlapping my awareness of beat is my awareness of melody/harmony. My brain tends to divide up music into levels according to the different instruments and voices and beats, usually ranking the levels according to volume. (ETA: I would like to note here that I'm trying to explain logically things that I do instinctually. Some people in the comments seem to have gotten the impression that I do these things consciously, but in fact, it's all subconscious.) For example, sometimes when I'm singing along to a song I won't know whether to sing along to the harmony or the melody because I'm not hearing the cumulative effect of the harmony and melody, rather I'm hearing each part almost independently. I remember when I first heard "What's My Age Again" by Blink 182 I actually thought the harmony was the melody for a while because it sounded more distinctive to my ears for whatever reason. I don't know if maybe this has something to do with the fact that I played piano since I was five and depending on the song my left hand may or may not have known what my right hand was doing.

Of course, during all this listening to beat and tune, part of my brain is unconsciously processing mood. Most people can translate mood pretty well because music is designed to make the listener feel something. This conscious and unconscious awareness of the music is where I get my vidding instincts. I usually don't get the meaning of a song the first time I listen to it. Some songs I'll never get the meaning while listening and I'll have to go look up the lyrics and absorb them in written form before I can put together a workable vidbunny. I might need lyrics to get a vid idea, but lyrics are rarely what actually makes me want to vid a song.

Now linzeems, for example, hears music and sees color. She describes herself as having a mild case of synesthesia. She has the most trouble vidding when the colors in her source don't match the colors she hears in the music. Maybe it's because I watched a buttload of hip hop music videos throughout childhood, but when I hear music, I instinctually translate it into dance. Where linzeems hears music and sees colors, I hear music and I feel it in my body, starting at the hips and working outward. Which probably explains all the various sexual metaphors I come up with to describe beat. Translate this to vidding and the thing I get most easily is movement. I've told permetaform I have a predator's eye for vidding. I can feel out movement in music, light flashes and dark space. I don't see colors, and my understanding of color is more logical than instinctual. I simply pick the colors that I feel amplify movement in the right way for the sound and mood of the music.

I was talking with linzeems about our different vidding styles yesterday, and I started to notice a lot of things about the way I vid that I didn't really notice until I compared my vidding style to hers. She sees vids as moving collages. Her vids look like moving collages. The have an absolutely beautiful color sense and a very smooth flow. I, on the other hand, vid like I'm choreographing a dance. I compared her latest vid, Pet, to my TF&TF vid, TCBU, and noticed that she picked a cutting style and used it consistently throughout the vid, while my cutting differed noticeably between the intro, the choruses, the verses, the bridge, and the finale. My TF&TF vid is probably the best representation of my style because the source had so much movement and so many types of movement that I was able to make the vid do exactly what I wanted it to do.

linzeems told me her favorite vid is sockkpuppett's So Real, which pretty much embodies the idea of a moving collage. sockkpuppett has a very good color sense. My favorite vid, on the other hand, is permetaform's The Fragile. It captures the beat perfectly. I remember telling permetaform it was like she'd taken the waveform and translated it directly into visuals. She's perhaps the only vidder I know who hears beat the same way I do.

heres_luck's vids also move very well with the music she chooses, and she's one of my favorite vidders. I can certainly take great enjoyment in vids that are moving collages or other vidding styles different from mine. However, it's the vids that dance with the music, be it a slow ballet or a fast bump and grind, that make the most immediate sense to me.

Comments

[par-avion.livejournal.com]

This was interesting! I co-modded the Language of Music panel at Vividcon, along with nestra. Neither Nestra not I make vids, though, but we both have backgrounds in music and are fans of vids.

The panel was...less successful than it could have been, for a lot of reasons, but one reason is that we planned a basic "introduction to music terminology" panel and mostly ended up with a room full of people who already knew that.

I'm curious if you've seen laurashapiro's Rook? It's one of the vids we knew we wanted to discuss early on, because of the way that Laura uses the music (not the lyrics, but the music) in that song.

[lierdumoa.livejournal.com]

I'm curious if you've seen laurashapiro's Rook? It's one of the vids we knew we wanted to discuss early on, because of the way that Laura uses the music (not the lyrics, but the music) in that song.

Ooooh, just looked at it and very interesting! She uses a lot of the lyrical beats and the percussive background singing and a lot of the shots don't match the meaning of the lyrics so much as they look the way the music sounds.

Which makes total sense to me watching it because I hear lyrics as an instrument first, and as words second (I think for many vidders it's the reverse). In this vid she's matching clips to the lyrics as an instrumental as much or moreso than she's matching clips to word meaning.

[boniblithe.livejournal.com]

I "see" music as movement. I always have; I can't hold still when good music is playing and the visuals in my head are always, always, always moving. Learning to put that movement on the screen cohesively has been a challenge, but a fun one. I hear beats as ends of gestures, or footsteps landing, or blows falling. Laura's Rook vid is like crack to my brain. I can't watch it often enough. It's exactly, exactly how I see music.

[lierdumoa.livejournal.com]

Yes! Like, there's something very physical about music to me. I mean, I'll hear a good song and dance around my room with it. With vidding I'm trying to translate the movement I'm feeling into something that can be seen. I watched Rook and the scene selections just made perfect sense to me.

[par-avion.livejournal.com]

...so much as they look the way the music sounds.

Yes! That's it, exactly. I probably watched the vid 20 times before I ever even heard most of the lyrics. (I've watched this vid a scary number of times.) I have problems hearing lyrics in general, though, especially for a song I don't know. I'm definitely paying more attention to the music. But I agree with you that most vidders rely more on the music, or at least start off that way.

The whole "illustrating what the music sounds like" aspect is what gets me every time, it's my favorite thing in a vid. It's hard to explain though. It's so visceral. I'm not sure that everyone reacts the same way to this. It's not quite a rollercoaster, but you know when you are in a car and you go over a bump that's just enough to make your stomach drop? That weird floaty feeling? That's what I get.

There's lots of little moments here and there, but some vidders really do that consistenly and I love it. I love The Fragile, but I'm a huge fan of that movie. There's some great moments in Gravity too, and I'm not a screaming fangirl for that movie, so I know that it's not just OMG My Fandom!!

Similarly, I like XF but don't looove it, so my love for Rook is totally about the vid. Also with SG1. destina's vid Did You is incredible. The beginning particularly gives me those zoomy feelings: she's illustrating the rests! with darkness! and it punctuates the vid! and the opening is all rave-y and tinkle-y and with the zooming wormwhole stuff.

::is inarticulate::

One of the things that came up at VVC in the premiere show review was that kitkatbyte and flrenze made a QAF vid to Elevation which had some coincidental similarities to the SV Elevation vid by the Clucking Belles. Specifically, using spinning effects/imagery at a certain point in the song. And someone commented "I guess that's just what the music sounds like."

[sdwolfpup.livejournal.com]

I just had to add to the love of "Did You." The darkness on the rests? OMG. I go incoherent, squealing fangirl at that part. I need to break for lunch so I can go watch that vid again.

[lierdumoa.livejournal.com]

Is this vid online?

[sdwolfpup.livejournal.com]

Yes, and I finally found it.

http://www.livejournal.com/users/destina/240374.html

[permetaform]

My favorite vid, on the other hand, is [info]permetaform's The Fragile.

XD dude, I know you liked it but I didn't know you still liked it that much.

though honestly, of my four vids, it's probably my favorite at the moment too. ::wry grin::

[lierdumoa.livejournal.com]

Hee! Well, it's my favorite of your vids, and since we share a vidbrain, my instincts are telling me this is how a vid is *supposed* to look. It's like the vid was tailor made to hit all my kinks -- cause we share all the same kinks.

Basically you took a song I would have wanted to vid for all my favorite reasons of wanting to vid a song (basically, OMGBEATISSEXXX MUST SHOW EVERYONE HOW SEXY BEAT IS) and vidded it the way I would have wanted to vid it.

[permetaform]

ahhhhh, ::grins and bows::

oh btw, can I do laundry at your place tues night? ::puppy eyes::

[lierdumoa.livejournal.com]

Whenever. Just call me before you get here.

[permetaform]

cool beans!

[boniblithe.livejournal.com]

Mine too :)

[sdwolfpup.livejournal.com]

This is fascinating! I hear beats and respond to them but I am mostly lyrically driven when putting a vid together. My brain latches immediately onto lyrics and the meaning of the words as much as the music itself, and when I'm planning a vid, the initial shaping of it is always lyrics-driven, and I don't start getting into hitting beats or how I'm going to cut until I'm in there and listening to the music while laying clips. It must be really interesting to be in your head while listening to music.

I also do a lot of my vidding instinctively these days; I don't measure out beats very much, I just see what feels right and throw stuff down and see how it looks. That's a change from my first vids, but I think it's a change for the better.

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

I hear beats and respond to them but I am mostly lyrically driven when putting a vid together. My brain latches immediately onto lyrics and the meaning of the words as much as the music itself, and when I'm planning a vid, the initial shaping of it is always lyrics-driven, and I don't start getting into hitting beats or how I'm going to cut until I'm in there and listening to the music while laying clips.

I was completely and utterly dependent upon lyrics when I first started vidding (I don't think that is unusual) but at a certain point... well the voice became just another instrument. The lyrics are important and I still find extreme satisfaction in interpreting a song's *words* and letting it define the story, but I also went from someone who was scared to death of bridges (NO LYRICS!! HEEEELLPP) to a person who looks forward to them and has even vidded a song that pretty much was just a Jazz instrumental (well, one of the versions of Caravan I spliced together was lyric-less).

Now it works out like this:

1. Does this song *sound* like X fandom or Y character? (can I associate the song, does it *feel* like them?)
2. What story does the song tell? Can I tell this story with available footage (so many Lex projects abandoned because I only have him pressing a doomsday button and laughing maniacally in my head. Woe is me)?
3. What will this story *look* like? And see - here is where the entire identity of the song hinges - the song dictates what the vid will *look* like. Not just its cuts or the color palette or the superimpositions or fades to black -- the entire vid needs to look a certain way because this song *looks* like this - it goes in an out here and it jumps here and then it comes back to the beginning here, but differently and I need to keep telling my story, always, but I also have to make certain that I do it in such a way that I am paying attention to what the song does as well, so the story feels right.

An example would be consistency in effects -- if you are going to do something special with the footage, then you need to carry that thru-out the vid. It does not have to *look* the same way at the end as it does at the beginning - *especially* if the music at the end does not sound like the music at the beginning. Just as the music builds and changes, so must your effect (or how you are editing the source, layering -- anything at all and everything, really) so that you are building and changing with the song, but just as a really good song is not *changing* itself, but redefining what it is, so should your vid. You are not jumping around wildly but are hallmarking back to what you have done before and drawing from that.

At least. I think so. Maybe. I'm still working on this and have to be reminded ever so often ::winks at permetaform::

[sdwolfpup.livejournal.com]

Bridges terrified me when I first started vidding. I know how to handle them better now and I almost sort of look forward to them, but I'm not quite at that developmental stage yet. I seem to have gotten mired in the lyrics stage.

My song selection process starts with the lyrics - even before I wonder if something sounds/feels like the character, a few words have to leap up at me and beat me over the head to get my attention at all. Once that happens, then I go to your step 1, the does it feel like the character step (which is a step I admittedly used to skip entirely based purely on the lyrics, so I feel like I'm growing as a person).

I do get to step 2 - what story does this vid tell. This is a more recent change for me, trying to tell a cohesive whole rather than just slapping clips down to appropriate lyrics and not really having anything that keeps them all together except a general theme. My real fear is that in learning this technique I won't be able to break out of using frames for all of my vids. Heh.

I understand and agree with step 3, but I'm only implementing that in part right now. I think that's really the step that takes vids another level higher in quality, and it's honestly something I struggle with. Color schemes, especially, still elude me. I have no natural feel for that at all and often don't even notice it in other's vids, it's something I have to very specifically work to incorporate. But one thing I have finally started to notice is that the song itself really goes a long way to helping with colors, and all of the elements of step 3. So the more I listen to the sound of the song, the better (I hope!) my vids are going to get.

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

I seem to have gotten mired in the lyrics stage.

I think you are progressing a lot like me. I am still very much lyrics based, just... it isn't as confining as it used to be?

I think for a lot of us, we started vidding and the initial thought was "my show! music! clips from my show to music!" and the novelty was such that this was enough to sustain us for a good long while... and then there is the realization that not only *can* we do more, but that we have more to say. And of course, finding all these different ways to get that across - well it opens up a bit more with each vid. We are making little movies, y'know?

And so the vids that matter to most to me are what Lum calls 10lb ideas in 5 lb sacks, and so I am drawn in my the complexity *and* the aesthetic. If I am being honest, while it is so important the vid look like the song, the most satisfying vid exploits its essential shininess to get that huge idea or emotion across.

So, while, visually, Lum's "So Real" is freaking astounding -- the complexity of the actual idea behind it -- that everything Wes is dreaming is something he has lost, a memory that has been wiped and it is all dream-logic and tangentially related and everytime he comes close to to anything that is Connor (the ultimate focus of the mindwipe) he loses it - it just slips away and everything, all his thoughts blur the closer they get to this central force... that Lum was able to get this out in a vid is nothing short of incredible. So while I think the entire thing is gorgeous and aethetically the beats and movement hit and flow, all of this is just a backdrop for this amazing story.

And really good vids get this across. "Darkness, Darkness" - I've never seen Miracles, but this vid haunts me. I was thrilled to VJ the "Unexpected Levels" show at VVC last year because I got to pick so many vids that were 5lb concepts in 10 lb bags. It made me so happy. It makes me want to do this and do it well.

I understand and agree with step 3, but I'm only implementing that in part right now. I think that's really the step that takes vids another level higher in quality, and it's honestly something I struggle with

Well, you and me both. I admit that I don't naturally think of color -- I do think I tend to use it instinctually and I think that color palettes *do* affect every viewer, just not on a conscious level. Go back to your earlier vids and see - I bet you were using a consistent palette or at least striving toward it without even realizing. A lot of times some of the decisions we make on the timeline -- a certain clip just isn't working and we don't know why -- many times it is because of this instinctive aethetic we are not aware of until someone else says "Oh, I loved how the vid was all green and golds" and we go "Buwha..er, I mean, oh thank you."

Remember watching "The Mountain" at VVC and how moving it was and how the entire room the next day went "OOOOHHH" when Lum mentioned that Frodo's portion of the the vid was chock full of circular (or ring) imagery and how Aragorn's part was all vertical (or sword) imagery?? And how most of us did not get that the first time through but now - watching the vid - it is almost overwhelming??

That same imagery was working on our subconscious before we ever knew it was there - it was helping us maintain the different POVs and also keep them separate and complimentary -- it was just in a language that was not verbal. Now - watch "The Mountain" now and it is like a switch has been flipped and we see it -- but the imagery was still there and working before we could acknowledge it.

I think in many ways that is what a lot of us vidders are trying to do now -- catch our language centers up to the nonverbal parts of our eyes and ears. You sell yourself too short, my friend. We all work hard to specifically incorporate different things -- but there are things you are doing right now that you just do not even know you are doing. Ask Laura Shapiro about some of the imagery in "Rook" and ask Eunice about her use of it in "Fragile" -- we all do subconscious vidding. You are no exception. God, I owe you tons of feedback.

[par-avion.livejournal.com]

"Unexpected Levels" show at VVC

I'm still sad that I missed this. I was working in the con suite that hour.

Do you want to see Miracles? I have VCDs.

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

Oh thank you for the Miracles offer -- I am actually going to get the DVDs, probably. Solely because Darkness, Darkness owns my soul.

I'd love to get a DVD actually of the Unexpected Levels show just because every single vid on it was one I loved or blew my mind and how great is it that the theme of the vid show was one where I could actually do that? Retroactive Squee!

Most of the vids can be found online - Hmmm, I wonder... I wonder if I should post a vidlist and links to the one's I know are online? It isn't the same as the big screen, but still - these are some really cool vids.

[lierdumoa.livejournal.com]

Ooooh, yes, do post a vidlist!

[sdwolfpup.livejournal.com]

novelty was such that this was enough to sustain us for a good long while.

In some ways, I am still sustained by this. Shiny! I do think that seeing vids like "So Real" has helped motivate me to want to try to do something like that myself. I know my vid ideas have gotten more complicated as I've gone on, and now I'm trying to say two or three or more things instead of just the one obvious message.

A lot of times some of the decisions we make on the timeline ... many times it is because of this instinctive aethetic we are not aware of

That's a great point. I know there have been times that clips just didn't "work," and I couldn't define why, but I was happier when I removed them. Or conversely, I hate them now that I see them in the published vids. I'm looking at you 'What You Wish For.' Heh. "The Mountain" is a perfect example - I understood immediately what Lum was talking about when she pointed out the circle/straight aspects of that at VVC, but if you had asked me I never could have articulated that. It's a way of looking at vids that as it develops the vidder can start applying to their own vids as well. A lot of good vidding comes from just being able to watch a vid well.

I really am not sure what I'm doing subconsciously. My thing seems to be compare and contrast, though. I can pick those moments out like you wouldn't believe. Those were always my favorite essays to write in Rhetoric class, too, so there you go.

And I blame you for my new use of "my friend" in everyday conversation. I caught myself saying it to AHH the other day and just started laughing uncontrollably. I still need to settle down with the first eps and watch! Sheesh.

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

Oh my friend, my friend --let me know if those eps work on your DVD player and there shall be more! Whee!

::spins on Iman love::

Okay, wait - discussion. Yes - you are doing things subconsciously and right now - *THIS*- is why you need feedback. Half of the stuff I do, I wouldn't know I was doing except someone told me (like Buffy and Spike circling each other all throughout "Essence" - I didn't know I was doing it - I only know that it looked right). Eunice did not have a clue (well, maybe a small clue) as to how circles were a constant theme in Fragile. So I am so remiss.

Forcing your vid ideas to be complicated will just make you insane -- trust me. They will complicate themselves as needed. Sometimes we need simple concept vids as well as the 10 pounders -- like "Cowboy" - that is a *very* simple concept vid. As is "Whatever" -- Angel as I/we see him for both, but I enjoyed them both and had a blast making(assisting on) them.

Sometimes you just have to let go. Of course I say this as I hyperventillate and clutch an unfinished vid to my chest.

[lierdumoa.livejournal.com]

They will complicate themselves as needed.

::just laughs::

I remember my last big vid project. It started out with -- hey this song sounds like this movie! And it's about a relationship! Yay, shipper vid! Then I started making it and was like -- it's about their entire relationship flashing through Brian's mind as he watches Dom crash at the end of the movie. The whole vid is a giant flashback!

Then a few weeks afterwards permetaform told me, "You know this song is about drug abuse, right?"

[sdwolfpup.livejournal.com]

Forcing your vid ideas to be complicated will just make you insane

For me personally, I have a yes AND no response to that. I agree that some vids will come out complicated or will resolve themselves into more complicated thoughts, and that there is definite space for those "simple" vid ideas that are fun to make. Vidding doesn't have to be all deep thoughts all the time. On the other hand, my ideas come to me in simple form all the time, so I have to spend time thinking about them and developing them or they never go beyond that.

I learned this on this last vid I did, the Wes vid. It started out as a simple idea and then as I poked at it and prodded it and thought about it and listened to the song and ripped clips, I realized it was so much more than I first thought.

Ah, vidding meta is love.

[lierdumoa.livejournal.com]

I really am not sure what I'm doing subconsciously. My thing seems to be compare and contrast, though. I can pick those moments out like you wouldn't believe. Those were always my favorite essays to write in Rhetoric class, too, so there you go.

Oh, interesting! I think I do a lot of more subconscious compare/contrast things in my vids. My very first vid was a compare/contrast vid, and probably the only time in vidding I brought that to a fully conscious level. I do love matching up parallel/anti-parallel images. I never took a rhetoric class, but I have a very opinionated and argumentative personality. I never stopped to think before how I might be factoring that into my vidding.

[heresluck]

We so share a brain about this.

My song selection process starts with the lyrics - even before I wonder if something sounds/feels like the character, a few words have to leap up at me and beat me over the head to get my attention at all.

This is almost always true for me as well -- the lyrics are what makes me test a song for viddableness. Sometimes the song doesn't work out musically, but if it doesn't work lyrically it doesn't end up on my vidding radar in the first place.

There have been a couple of recent exceptions to this. One of my X-Files songs has a bassline that sounds like the X-Files, and specifically like Mulder having a baaad day. The lyrics also work, but it was the sound of the song that grabbed me first. And neither of my Farscape songs have lyrics in English, so those were both about sound as well. But for the most part? Lyrics, front and center.

...trying to tell a cohesive whole rather than just slapping clips down to appropriate lyrics...

This is where renenet has been so endlessly helpful to me; in beta, she pushes me to figure out that story, to connect the dots. So now, in self-defense, I try to do it ahead of time.

My real fear is that in learning this technique I won't be able to break out of using frames for all of my vids. Heh.

You know, I just realized (in the conversation over in my own LJ) that a lot of my best vids also use frames: Glorious #1, Atropine, Superstar. But my three most recent vids have *not* used frames in this way. So it is possible to do good things with them without getting hopelessly addicted. *g*

And step 3 has been a really slow process for me as well, but I think I'm starting to get the hang of it. Cat Scan Hist'ry sounds dark to me -- so the use of light and dark (though not color) in that vid grew out of that perception about sound. Similarly, the sound of Thistledown Tears suggested a color palette that's warm but kind of gritty -- dusty browns and golds -- and the online version (though not the VVC version) uses a lot of levels effects and color correction to play that up.

[sdwolfpup.livejournal.com]

And neither of my Farscape songs have lyrics in English, so those were both about sound as well.

Non-English lyrics (for us English speakers) are admittedly a special case. I haven't even begun to broach the idea of vidding effectively instrumental songs with my brain yet. Um, I think that sentence needs a comma somewhere to make it clear. Although I'd really like to vid an instrumental song. I need to start expanding my repertoire out of the four or five non-English songs I have on my iTunes rotation.

she pushes me to figure out that story, to connect the dots

I am going to start engaging in vid-talk pre-first draft as my new experiment. It should be an interesting experience, as I'm terrified that by telling anyone about my idea ahead of time, it will immediately sound lame and I'll never make it. :)

And that is good news about you breaking out of frame usage; there is hope for me!

[lierdumoa.livejournal.com]

I think our processes are very similar, with some subtle differences.

For example, my step 1 would be: What fandom or character does this song sound like? I'll run though every movie and show I've seen and a few I haven't to find a perfect match. Then 2: it sounds like subjects X, Y, and Z in fandoms A, B, and E. Let me look at the lyrics and see which subject fits the best.

There's step 2.5: no, that's too obvious a match for the song, maybe something that fits in a more unexpected way.

As for step 3, my impression of what a vid will end up looking like is alternately crystal clear or completely vague. I'll visualize certain scenes with certain musical moments. Sometimes I'll work out an effects theme in my head. Two of my upcoming vids I already know exactly what effects I'm going to use. For my TF&TF vid, I had no idea what to do for effects and just started throwing things on the timeline to see what worked and ended up with an effects theme consisting mostly of ghosting, overlays, and crossfades. Sometimes a complete narrative will fall into my head fully formed. Sometimes I'll have to do some serious brainstorming, especially if the story I'm telling ends up not being linear.

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

Well - I do that too. Hee, no process is 100% the same every time. I think it is great that you are talking yours out because it is interesting. I love to discuss process and how things are created and how we see them *before* they become something. It's fun and also - you get useful insight.

And I think it is important that you post how you hear/see the music because you are absolutely right - not everyone does this. I remember looking at an early draft of "Gravity" and explaining that to permetaform --that this attention to beat and music and movement (a certain sound has to *move* a certain way) is not instintual for everyone -- for some people the instinctual thing is coming in on an entirely different channel and it is based in light and color or something else. Sometimes it is based on nothing and well, you just grin and bear it cause vids aren't that long, really. Sigh.

But - see what we do instinctually is also what we do unconsciously and we can all develop our intrinsic skills and hone the ones that aren't quite as natural, by doing what you are doing here: talking it out. This is great. This could be a panel on process.

I still want Lum to do a panel on process at VVC and to show a vid from first draft to final product and of course after she kills me for suggesting she do it, we will all be so very happy. Except for poor, dead me. Well, even poor dead me because I plan on haunting VVC.

[lierdumoa.livejournal.com]

I remember looking at an early draft of "Gravity" and explaining that to permetaform --that this attention to beat and music and movement (a certain sound has to *move* a certain way) is not instinctual for everyone -- for some people the instinctual thing is coming in on an entirely different channel and it is based in light and color or something else.

Yes! Like when I talk to linzeems, who gets color in a way I will never get color. When it comes to beat and music and movement permetaform and I totally share a brain. We usually trust each other to tell if something is timed to the wrong beat in our vids because no one else is as anal about it as we are.

I think I have certainly honed my music listening abilities with vidding, especially with vidding on Premiere. I'm trying to hone my color awareness now that I see vids like linzeems's. I love that she's been writing posts lately explaining her color sense.

I would love to see a panel on process. I'm also curious as to the differences in the kind of vidding you see from people who say, played an instrument or have a rich visual art background or, like me, have a fic and meta writing background that they carried with them into vidding.

[heresluck]

I was completely and utterly dependent upon lyrics when I first started vidding (I don't think that is unusual)...

Sing it, sister. I am still not to the point of thinking of the voice as just another instrument -- though after this Farscape vid and the LotR vid I may be! -- but yes, the music matters so much more to my selection process and dictates so much more about the vid than it used to.

1. Does this song *sound* like X fandom or Y character?...
2. What story does the song tell? Can I tell this story with available footage...?
3. What will this story *look* like?

Yes, yes, yes. These are the things I'm learning to think about too.

And -- can I just say for the umpteenth time -- I love having you to talk to about this stuff. I love knowing that each new vid of yours -- watching it, talking about it with you -- will help me learn something faster than I could have learned it own my own.

[lierdumoa.livejournal.com]

My very first vid was lyrically driven. I was listening to a song and realized the lyrics really ran true for a certain character.

The second song I vidded I chose simply because I loved the song. I think this has to do with my not being fandom bound. I realized early on that if I was going to vid music I liked, I'd have to be willing to look outside the fandom I was in to find the perfect source for the music.

Of course when I'm planning out a vid I try to match narrative to lyrics. In fact, I usually don't listen to the song at all while clipping, and instead just have a paper with the lyrics on it and short notes of where the instrumental sections are and how long they are. I divide up the song into sections and figure out a theme for each section that will build up to the overall theme of the vid and clip according to the decided themes.

Basically, lyrics are a tool for me. I use lyrics to get points across. Beat is a different matter for me. Beat, in my vids, spends about as much time making points as it does being the point.



I also do a lot of my vidding instinctively these days; I don't measure out beats very much, I just see what feels right and throw stuff down and see how it looks.

I think almost every decent vidder works mostly instinctively. For me, measuring out beat is instinctive and completely automatic. This post was basically me trying to deconstruct my unconsious perceptions so I could explain them to people with different unconscious perceptions. I don't actually hear a song and think, okay there are 6 separate beat levels including vocals and 3 levels of syncopation. However, I can usually remember the drumbeat pattern in a song and the instrumental harmonies just as easily as I can remember it's basic melody.

[sdwolfpup.livejournal.com]

I chose simply because I loved the song

I have songs like this that are sitting on my "To Vid" list with a big "???" under 'fandom.' I can't seem to go specifically outside of my fandom unless I know something about the fandom in question. Shoot, part of the best thing about getting into Farscape is I think I've identified one of those songs for that show. I just have to hope they do what I want/think they're going to do.

I usually don't listen to the song at all while clipping

Ok, now see, this is *really* interesting, because what you outline in this paragraph is exactly how I clip. I have the lyrics printed out, I mark instrumental sections and how long they are, and I put the general theme I'm going for in each stanza. I think where we diverge is how we use the beats. The lyrics tend to remain my main tool, the beat being pulled into service of what the lyrics are saying.

But I really am a lyrics whore, and I can generally pick out 75-85% of a song's lyrics on first hearing, and often sing the chorus on the first time hearing a song I really like. I think it's one of the reasons I respond to rap vids really well, because I can pick out so much of what the rapper is saying.

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

Rap tends to give you *massive* lyrical info as well since they move so much faster and contain so much more lyrical content than another genre of song. Vidding to rap is very interesting and also helps the vidder think beyond the strict lyrical interpretation box (no longer known as metaphor v. literalism -- now we have to decide what we pay attention to and what we just go with) as there is no way to cut that fast and *not* give your audience a seizure. As it is - you have already lost all of the people in the audience that can't keep up with fast cuts and you are in danger of losing at least 25% more just because the song is rap.

. I just have to hope they do what I want/think they're going to do.

I do this all the time, and lately - it has been assisting me in getting pimped to fandoms. Like, I saw "Blue on Black" and that was my first intro to "Deadwood" and so then I hear another song and I love it and I think, "Hmm, I want to see this as a vid. I have no fandom it matches. I wonder if it is a Deadwood vid? It looks like Deadwood, or my understanding of Deadwood based on Killa's vid. I wonder if Killa would want to vid this song?" So I send it to Killa, she loves it and she pimps me to Deadwood and I love it and it turns out that I have a *ton* of music that has just been sitting here, waiting for me to watch Deadwood.

Possibly I have at least three CDs and their sole purpose of existing in my life is that one day I am gonna watch all of Carnivale and finally know what those songs are all about.

It is all about the vids.

For each good song there is a fandom and for every generation a vidder is born. She will seek out these songs and unite them with fandoms and boldly go where fen have all longed to go, hoping against hope that the next vid, will be the vid home. Or something. Possibly with a three hour tour...

[lierdumoa.livejournal.com]

I wonder if it is a Deadwood vid? It looks like Deadwood, or my understanding of Deadwood based on Killa's vid. I wonder if Killa would want to vid this song?

This is just like me, only because of the way I hear music and sense movement, there are some songs I wouldn't trust anyone other than me to vid the way I want them to be vidded.

This is a special kind of insanity, which once led me to read a bajillion episode transcripts and then download about 25 episodes of a show I'd never seen (Oz) so I could make a shipper vid I didn't ship for a fandom I wasn't in. Am still not in.



For each good song there is a fandom and for every generation a vidder is born. She will seek out these songs and unite them with fandoms and boldly go where fen have all longed to go, hoping against hope that the next vid, will be the vid home. Or something. Possibly with a three hour tour...

Shades of BtVS, Star Trek and...Quantum Leap?

[lierdumoa.livejournal.com]

I can't seem to go specifically outside of my fandom unless I know something about the fandom in question.

I generally consider all of fandom my fandom. All I usually need is a general impression of a fandom before I can get a vidbunny for it. Like, for example, my vidbunny to "Cut A Man's Heart Out" that I got for Sin City after just seeing the trailer.



But I really am a lyrics whore, and I can generally pick out 75-85% of a song's lyrics on first hearing, and often sing the chorus on the first time hearing a song I really like. I think it's one of the reasons I respond to rap vids really well, because I can pick out so much of what the rapper is saying.

Aaaah, more people should vid rap music. I can usually understand rap lyrics really well, probably because I listened to so much rap as a child. Only, I have to specifically tell myself to pay attention to the meaning of the words or chances are I won't catch on to it about 60% of the time. I often pick up the words phonetically. Like, I know what words I'm singing as I sing them, but I may or may not piece together those words into coherent sentences until I decide I want to vid the song and am forced to figure out what the song is about.

Though really, it depends on the song. Some songs I pick up on the meaning immediately, but usually for that to happen the meaning has to be the most distinctive thing about the song. I'm easily distracted by a good beat or tune. With rap, for example, the reason I probably find it less offensive than many people is that I'm more preoccupied by the way the words are said than by what the words mean.

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

In fact, I usually don't listen to the song at all while clipping, and instead just have a paper with the lyrics on it and short notes of where the instrumental sections are and how long they are. I divide up the song into sections and figure out a theme for each section that will build up to the overall theme of the vid and clip according to the decided themes.

Well, except for the not-listening to the song part - this could be me a few years ago. I had to give up the actual "planning phase before I clipped" because I have no patience and I want to be in vid farr at all times, so I clip and vid as I clip and listen to the song obsessively and the only time I ever write anything down is when I finally figure something out and I can't get to the computer (I see something key on the drive to work, for example) I will make a post it note.

This isn't to say I don't plan a vid - I do. There is the whole "Obsessively listening to the song" phase that can last from 72 hours to 8 months before I start clipping. But it all happens in my head and the I tell Lum. Maybe a few other people. I can't talk about it too much or I will figure it out and the impetus to Vid It Now will disappear.

Often I just get metaish in my LJ about the fandom/character in question right when I am talking a vid out (so I end up talking out the concept rather than the vid). Or I end up spamming LJ. Or other people's comment threads because I am hyper and Away from My Vid.

oops.

[lierdumoa.livejournal.com]

the only time I ever write anything down is when I finally figure something out and I can't get to the computer (I see something key on the drive to work, for example) I will make a post it note

I tend to write out outlines when I have a hard time planning a vid. If an idea wasn't obvious to me the minute I heard the song, chances are I'll forget it if I don't write it down.

I'm working on an Almost Famous vid right now that that I neither outlined nor clipped because the outline sprang fully formed into my head and I was too impatient to start vidding to bother with clip making (and since I'm using avisynth, Premiere won't die on me for trying to vid without clipping first). On the other hand, I have an upcoming vid to Memento that I have no idea how to organize, and it's probably going to have a very detailed written outline before I start making it.

[crowie.livejournal.com]

Ooo this is an interesting discussion. Now I havent vidded a great deal and I definately haven't vidded anything in monts (my computer is broken).

But when I vid Ive so far been very movement and colour/composition driven. I see movement mostly as composition through time and the time is controlled by the music. I don't know if that makes any sense or not.

My background is around 10 years of classical training playing the violin AND years of drawing and painting, including several years drawing and painting in a computer (using photoshop and painter).

Because of the digital art part of my background I understand how colour is handled in computers, what levels, layers and curves can do for you, gaussian blurs, overlays and alpha channels etc.

It was just recently though that I realised that you could do that to *vids* not just still images. That blew my mind wide open but unfortunately I havent been able to vid at all since I realised that (computer still broken).

Ive so far been a very instinctual vidder, never counted out beats or made any big plans. Usually there are so few clips that match the motion and mood that I want for the next bit, especially when trying to keep the overall theme for the vid working, that the vid mostly build itself. Except when I get stuck ofcourse.

[lierdumoa.livejournal.com]

Ive so far been a very instinctual vidder, never counted out beats or made any big plans.

I feel like I've somewhat misrepresented myself here. I do not count out beats, or if I do, it's not on purpose at all. I just hear them more than I think most people hear them. If I get a song stuck in my head I'm just as likely to start tapping the beat out with my fingers as I am to start humming it. Sometimes I'll hum the harmony instead of the melody or do some vocal imitation of the instrumentals. It's totally instinctual, but when I listen to music I hear each individual part as much as I hear the cumulative effect and my brain can easily divide a song up into its separate elements.

This post is basically me trying to explain with logic all the things I do with instinct.

I had very little experience with visual art and color before vidding, so I don't use color for it's own sake so much as I use it to amplify the one thing I do understand really well, which is movement. I can tell if a color is detracting from or adding to the mood I'm trying to get across, but it takes more effort than timing and choosing types of movement and cutting because I don't have as much practice in it and it doesn't come as naturally to me.

[crowie.livejournal.com]

Ah, ok.. I get what you're saying and it is *very* difficult trying to put into words what goes on in the "beats/movement/shapes/colour/mood/harmony/flow/feeling" head space that I think every vidder goes into when vidding.

Thanks for writing that post, it's given me interesting things to think about :)