Hmmm

[lierdumoa]

I seem to have become nocturnal as of last night. I'm blaming Naruto because instead of sleeping all I can do is think up meta. Now you see where my real problem lies. How annoying is it trying to write meta for a fandom that no one you know is in? Really fucking annoying, that's how.



Good Ambition vs. Bad Ambition in Anime

My favorite anime of all time is One Piece. My current anime obsession is Naruto. These shows have one overarching theme in common. Good Ambition vs. Bad Ambition (bad lack of ambition comes up as well, and I'll be discussing that too). This is a theme very rarely seen in western media.

I was discussing earlier with my roommate how the American Dream has transformed over the years from working your way up into society to winning the lottery, or possibly making something of yourself after screwing up a lot. Rather than being applauded for ambition, people are applauded for redemption.

If you want to talk red blooded American geekdom, I can't name a single superhero who I'd call ambitious. Plenty of supervillains. [ETA: boniblithe was so good as to point out in the comments that ambition is apparent in a few superheroes, Batman for example -- a very successful businessman. He is one of the darker, more conflicted superheroes. Those who have ambition in western media then either have gone to the dark side with it or are have it as a source of much internal conflict. There aren't very many examples of hereoes that are ambitious and at peace with themselves.]

The villification of ambition is especially prevalent in the Harry Potter fandom. Evil Slytherins are ambitious. Ambition is a quality of the wealthy and bigoted. I find this oddly contradictory because really, wealthy folk aren't generally ambitious at all. Old money looks down on new money. Wealth is supposed to be inherited, not earned.

Oh right. I was talking about anime.

Good Ambiton vs. Bad Ambition. Most of the protagonists in One Piece are extremely ambitions. Monkey D. Luffy, the star of the show, wants to be The Pirate King. Roronoa Zoro wants to be the strongest swordsman in the world. Sanji wants to be the world's greatest cook. I don't know if Nami wants to be the world's best navigator -- she kind of already is. Ussop...hmmm. He's good at lying, and coming through in a pinch. For the purposes of my argument, let's ignore Nami and Ussop for now.

Then we go to Naruto. This is a sports anime. I'd have to say that Naruto has a better overall story arc and it gets a lot deeper and more introspective than One Piece, whereas I think One Piece is much better on an episode by episode and mini-arc by mini-arc basis. I've gone off topic again. Which is to say -- I watch a One Piece episode and I'm burning to see what happens next; I keep watching Naruto episodes because I'm burning to see how the show will be resolved and I know the resolution won't make any sense if I don't watch all the episodes inbetween.

Right. Naruto. Sports anime. We have our main protagonist, who is extremely ambitious. He wants to be the best ninja so he can redeem himself in the eyes of the other members of his town (though what he needs to be redeemed for isn't something that's actually his fault). Naruto, like Luffy, seems extremely overexciteable and obnoxious at first, however as time goes on we see that he (again like Luffy) inspires most everyone around him to be ambitious as well and do their best in whatever their endeavors may be.

We have the case of an antihero in Naruto. Sasuke. His brother went evil and killed off an entire town, including his parents. Sasuke also wants to be the best ninja, but it's mostly because of the inferiority complex he has in dealing with his brother. Sasuke is determined to surpass his brother in ninja ability so he can kill him and avenge his town. Sasuke is one twisted little boy. The reason he's an antihero and not a villain? He loves Naruto (slashers or non-slashers -- interpret that sentence however you like). Sasuke is cruel with his words and his actions to Naruto and to his other teammate Sakura, but it is to distance himself from them so he doesn't hurt them in a more serious and damaging way. Poor, poor misguided boy. Sasuke's goals might be suspect, but at least he understands that revenge is not worth the lives of his closest friends.

Therein lies the essential difference between good ambition and bad ambition. People with good ambition always have their priorities straight. In one of the earlier Naruto episodes, a ninja instructor holds up two bells to three teammates, Naruto, Sasuke, and Sakura, and tells them that whoever gets a bell passes. The exercise is designed to set the teammembers against each other, however the only way for anyone to get any bells is by working together. The point of the exercise -- whatever your goal is, it is never more important than your team/friends/family. Naruto continually throughout the series takes risks that could result in him losing his goal of becoming a great ninja because he always puts his loyalty to those he loves above his ambition.

Sasuke's brother is an example of classic bad ambition. He wants power for power's sake. The boy decided that he would become strongest if he cut off all his human attachments. So he killed his entire town. Including his parents.

Now in addition to having villains with bad ambition, both series have villains who are evil due to their lack of ambition. This, I think, is perhaps even more interesting than the concept of good ambition vs. bad ambition because it turns the western concept of ambition=bad completely on it's head.

Take One Piece. The third villian in the series is an evil pirate by the name of Captain Kuro. All he wants in life is piece and quiet (yes, it's ridiculous -- it's anime we're talking, here). He decides he can't have piece and quiet unless he 1) steals a shitload of money from a wealthy young heiress and 2) erases all traces of his history as a pirate (this means killing his entire crew) and 3) erases all traces of how he got his money (this means killing the young heiress). He is unambitious. His goal in life is to maintain his status quo, which isn't really a goal at all.

Luffy is often seen by people who don't know him as incredibly naive. He wants to be the pirate king and has an incredibly idealized view of pirates. The last pirate king, before he died, left behind all his wealth and announced that whoever acquired his wealth would inherit his title. Most pirates in the series have no interest in being the pirate king. They just want to get their own. Why go to hell on earth after some mythical treasure and some useless title when you can just rob and pillage and still end up pretty well off?

Similarly, in Naruto, we have a principal unambitious villain -- Orochimaru. This is an evil ninja who discovered the secret to immortality. In order to retain his immortality he must constantly find a new host body, wear it out, then find another. His goal in life is to keep being alive. All he wants in life is what he already has. What could be more unambitious?

[insert conclusion here]



Tune it tommorrow night for the next Naruto pimp post. I also have some vidding meta on the back burner that I have no idea when I'll be posting, mostly revolving around vidding aesthetics and styles that differ greatly from my own.



Cut tags are for pussies.

Comments

[boniblithe.livejournal.com]

I don't know that ambition is necessarily villified in American superheroes, but I think it is mixed up with moral ambiguity. Batman, for example. He's quite ambitious in his vigilante-ness, and he doesn't rest on his laurels. No one would call him a villain but you definately wouldn't think of him as an angel, either.

Unless it was an angel of darkness muahaha.

[lierdumoa.livejournal.com]

Ah, very good point. Will add to the post.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Ah, One Piece, you're pretty early in the series, yes? Later villains have wild ambitions - Crocodile wants to take over the world; Ener wants to be a god (actually thinks he is a god. but.) (and OP's story arc gets incredibly complex later on; the more you see the more you realize is coming together as the series goes on, the goals of the Marines, Robin, everything...it's built so very slowly that it takes a while to realize that there is actually elaborate world-building going on...)

It's an interesting point, thought. Especially compared to American superheroes. The ambitions are very important to Japanese heroes, because most anime heroes get to be heroes as much by determination as by natural talent. Most American heroes (with the notable exception of Batman - but there's a reason Batman is everyone's fave) are gifted with superpowers. Anime heroes often do have powers - Luffy's rubber; Naruto's imprisoned fox-spirit - but those powers are always augmented by intense effort. Luffy doesn't kick everyone's ass just because he can become rubber; the devil fruit power is useful, but he'd probably be as successful without it. Zoro may be naturally gifted with swords but he trains constantly to be the best. The fight shounen theme is, fundamentally, that if you're willing try hard enough you can reach any dream.

While in American comics, to be a hero, really you have to be born into it. Which might be why a lot of recent comics focus on how difficult it is to be a hero (e.g. X-men and all the trials mutants endure. Luffy never once angsts about being rubber, even if he can't swim!) If we weren't exploring the dark side of being a superhero, reading comics would just get depressing, after a while, because they're pretty much telling you that unless you're lucky enough to be bitten by a mutant spider, you could never really be a hero.

(...and that was a lot to cough up on your lj outa nowhere. umm, hi! I got here from permetaform. all I know about you is that you bring up cool points and made an awesome tFatF musiv vid that made me watch the movie.)

(also, Naruto does have a fairly large yaoi following - I don't read it much myself but ninjatrauma has rec'ed a lot. Unfortunately the SasuNaru contingent isn't that strong, which baffles me because while I'm not that into the show, how can anyone miss the huge blinking neon GAY GAY GAY sign over their heads?)

[lierdumoa.livejournal.com]

I'm up to episode 90 in One Piece at this point -- so about halfway through. I completely forgot to mention the mermen arc. But then, I did write this post at 1:00 am. I'll edit it when I get the chance and add in references to your points about superpowers and effort.



Most American heroes (with the notable exception of Batman - but there's a reason Batman is everyone's fave) are gifted with superpowers.

I never particularly liked Batman. Too much brooding, I think. I like quirky trickster figures (which means I usually end up liking the villains and antiheroes more than the heroes). My favorite superhero at this point is probably the Flash -- in addition to saving the world, he's a hyperactive prankster. I also have an unhealthy love for St. John Allerdyce because, well, he's such a bitch.



Luffy never once angsts about being rubber, even if he can't swim!

I'm pretty sure Luffy doesn't know how to angst. I'm doubtful as to whether he knows how to spell angst. God, I love him.

<3



(...and that was a lot to cough up on your lj outa nowhere. umm, hi! I got here from permetaform. all I know about you is that you bring up cool points and made an awesome tFatF musiv vid that made me watch the movie.)

Don't worry -- I've come to expect that people will randomly visit my journal from permetaform's f-list after she mentions me in a post. Glad you liked my TF&TF vid!

=D



Unfortunately the SasuNaru contingent isn't that strong, which baffles me because while I'm not that into the show, how can anyone miss the huge blinking neon GAY GAY GAY sign over their heads?

I think a lot of yaoi fans seem to have something against relationships with no defined "bottom" and "top." That, and people tend to shy away from putting characters like Naruto in sexual situations because they can't figure out how to make them sexy.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Ah, you're just at the Arabasta filler...I'll warn you, that's about the nadir of the anime. Keep with it because the end of Arabasta is some of the series' best, and when some of the bigger plotlines start to come into play (e.g. the weapons, the mystery of the D) (forgot to mention but in your original post when talking about ambitions - Nami's ambition is to make a map of the world, and that does sustain her; Usopp's is to be a great warrior, and he's very determinedly on that track. And Chopper wants to become the doctor who can heal anyone - Luffy doesn't allow anyone on the ship who doesn't have grand dreams!)

I never particularly liked Batman. Too much brooding, I think.

I know exactly what you mean. But my first exposure to Batman was reruns of the original Adam West TV series, the height of '60s camp, and the comic books of the same era, so I have a hard time taking the Dark Knight thing seriously. (and at least Batman doesn't angst about his powers - he's a disturbed individual who'd be just as fucked in the head if he weren't a hero, if not more. Superheroes who angst about their super-cool powers drive me nuts. 'Boo-hoo, I have super strength and speed, why can't I just be noooormal?' Oh, cry me a river! --I'm looking at you, Smallville's Clark Kent.)

I'm pretty sure Luffy doesn't know how to angst. I'm doubtful as to whether he knows how to spell angst. God, I love him.

Actually Luffy does know how to angst, recent manga events have proven - he goes about three volumes without smiling. but he's finally started sparkling idiotically again. yes, much with the Luffy-love! ^^

I think a lot of yaoi fans seem to have something against relationships with no defined "bottom" and "top." That, and people tend to shy away from putting characters like Naruto in sexual situations because they can't figure out how to make them sexy.

Hmm, but plenty of us slash OP, and the chars of Naruto (at least, Sasuke) are more conventionally attractive, I'd say. And yaoi fen don't have any trouble arbitrarily assigning a standard seme and uke role even when none is canonically evident (Zoro x Sanji is the rule, even though there's no especial reason, except that Zoro is probably physically stronger. And in something like Weiss Kreuz there are people who are fanatical about Aya x Yohji and others equally convinced it must be Yohji x Aya, so...) Maybe the 12-year-old thing bothers some of them? (c'mon, people, just grow 'em up a few years!) Actually SasuNaru is hugely popular on ff.net; it's just not big among most of the good writers...it's a mystery!

[lierdumoa.livejournal.com]

Ah. I knew the shark face guy wanted her to make a map of the world for him, but I didn't realize that that becomes her own ambition for herself.

Luffy w/ no sparkling? I've got to see that.

When I think of Batman, I usually picture him a lot like Joss Whedon's Angel. Great character -- just not my type. The Adam West version wasn't very true to the comicbook canon at all, so it just strikes me as charmingly OOC.

I liked SV's Clark Kent. I can understand angsting over not being normal -- maybe not to that level of emo. Personally, I think most of that angst is thanks to being mind fucked by his dad -- "Don't play sports! Hide your powers! Now lift my tractor for me, would you son?" What annoyed me about that Clark, more than anything, was the self-righteousness (which he also got from his dad).



Hmm, but plenty of us slash OP, and the chars of Naruto (at least, Sasuke) are more conventionally attractive, I'd say. And yaoi fen don't have any trouble arbitrarily assigning a standard seme and uke role even when none is canonically evident (Zoro x Sanji is the rule, even though there's no especial reason, except that Zoro is probably physically stronger.

I was speaking more of Naruto himself. Sasuke is a pretty boy and Naruto is not, but more than that -- it's like writing Luffy sex (minus the stretching ability). There is the 12 year old thing -- it's hard to write realistic character growth. More importantly, you have to tread very carefully to write a Naruto sex scene where Naruto's personality doesn't get in the way of his partner's orgasm.

Whee, random person!

[rocknlobster.livejournal.com]

I think a lot of yaoi fans seem to have something against relationships with no defined "bottom" and "top."
DUDE. Thank you. I've never really liked the term "yaoi fan" (or "yuri fan" for that matter), mostly because...the whole point of looking at things equally is looking at them -equally-. Love is love is love and all that. So if a guy wants another guy, great! A girl? That's cool too! Y'know? People make too much of a fuss about sex and sexual orientation.....and as long as they still have that mindset, things aren't really going to change.

But! This is me being reffed here by bangles, and completely loving your commentary on ambition. Rock! :)

Re: Whee, random person!

[lierdumoa.livejournal.com]

Oh, cool! I never expected my meta to travel all that far through lj.

And yeah. It's an old pet peeve of mine. If I wanted to label someone as the girl in a relationship, I'd be writing het.